Are all the 47mm Luminor correct from an historical point of view?

Jul 06, 2008,03:36 AM
 


We recently had a discussion about the 127, this Luminor Marina in 47mm...

Basically there are only 3 47mm Luminor Marina:

The 127:

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The 217:

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The movement of these 2 Panerai Watches is exactly the same, an ETA, which don't have the same decoration, but this is strictly the same...

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And the special Pam 203:

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Special because this watch has an interesting movement, the Angelus 8 Dayssad Credit pic: Asi ).

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All the 3 watches are related to the History of Panerai, but with some reserves...

The 127 and 217 don't have the right movement.

Here's the one and only one correct movement for these watches: ( Credit pic: Ralf..Thanks, my friend!).

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An Angelus one, as the Angelus was housed on any Luminor equipped with a small second at 9...

If the 127 and 217 were bases, I mean without small seconds, this ETA would have been a correct choice, as very close, esthetically speaking, to the Rolex Cortebert which equipped the 6152, and 6152/1.

In these 127/ 217, the finest choice should have been a Manifattura movement, closer to the angelus than the ETA.

Now that you saw the Vintage Angelus, here's the watch:

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And, while you see this pic, you see another problem...

On All the 6152 equipped with an Angleus movement, you'll never see on the dial the writing " Otto Giorni brevettato", never!

This writing was only to be seen on the Egiptiano 2/ 56:

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So, now you know the answer:

On the 127 / 217, the dial and the case are good, but the design of the movement not, nor the power reserve.

On the 203, the case and the movement are good, but not the writing on the dial which is a confusion with the GPF 2/56 so called Egitiano.

So, it remains one question: Why Panerai didn't do the right things on these 3 watches, which have a strong link with the History of the Brand???

Hope you'll enjoy this quick discussion.

Best.
Nicolas

PS: Sorry for the credit of the other pics, but really don't know who to credit, so please let me know, if you're the author of these pics. I will of course immediately credit you.

Pic Nr 1 to be credited to SCL...Thanks a lot, Mate.

Pic Nr 2 to be credited to William LOI.Thanks, too!

This message has been edited by AnthonyTsai on 2008-07-09 06:14:28


More posts: LuminorLuminor 1950Luminor MarinaPAM127PAM203PAM217

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Thanks Nicolas for this critical analysis,

 
 By: patrickh : July 6th, 2008-04:31
I am sure than many purists will appreciate this discussion on Panerai 's historical roots. I also hope Mr BONATI will read it and propose the REAL historical Edidion we are waiting for. Great pics as usual. Cheers, Patrickh

Thanks, Patrickh

 
 By: amanico : July 6th, 2008-08:04
Would like to see a coherent 47mm, without too many writings, and a movement which corresponds at least esthetically, and if horologically, it will be better! Let's see, I'm not too confident, but let's see... Best. Nicolas

Ha ha!

 
 By: renerod : September 28th, 2011-14:07
My friend! You really know how to keep the suspense!!! Like a good old horror movie C'mon, bring it on! Best. René

Well, since June 2008, this watch arrived...

 
 By: amanico : September 28th, 2011-14:10
The 372... Even if its movement is a bit too far from the Rolex cortebert. But aesthetically speaking, it fits the bill! Best, Hermano. Nicolas.

Why I think because

 
 By: Ares501 - Mr Green : July 6th, 2008-05:43
they will do it in one of following SE with beautiful price tag Damjan

ROFL, Damian

 
 By: amanico : July 6th, 2008-08:11
Dreaming is good! Hope all is good for you, and that the child lets you sleep! LOL Best. Nicolas

Less and less

 
 By: Ares501 - Mr Green : July 6th, 2008-08:56

They don't do exactly the same because...

 
 By: foversta : July 6th, 2008-05:50
1) they don't want to do an exact replica 2) because when you do an exact replica, the quest is over : there is no reason to produce other "similar" watches. With this system, Panerai can produce several "imperfect" 47mm Luminor. Fr.Xavier

historically correct or not...

 
 By: Exupery : July 6th, 2008-09:45
Well, maybe one can dream about more historically correct and even more correct than correct. But I must say I really love this post, it's models and the great great pictures as they are! What more can we wish for? Well, I'm just a PAM-lover and not a col... 

Just wondering: Why ahould they?

 
 By: ALEPOS : July 6th, 2008-12:25
When they see a new watch that is partially related to vintage watches, creates so much demand and in a short period of life the price doubles, why should they? Alepos

Not partially, Alepos

 
 By: amanico : July 6th, 2008-12:44

SE enjoy with similar and similar than the exactly one.

 
 By: bugbunny : July 6th, 2008-23:32
I love Fiddy, MM and the Angel but anyway Panerai also do the same thing repeat and repeat again like 26, MM, Regatta, 22-232, submer and etc. I sure that one day Cali to be relaunch again but the diff. of features that this most debut SE. ;0) just my 0.2... 

Don't give them bad ideas, Bugbunny! LOL

 
 By: amanico : July 7th, 2008-03:38
Even if I think they already have them! LOL Best, my friend. Nicolas

Always a pleasure

 
 By: gazoz : July 7th, 2008-15:51
to read your posts Nicolas and very informative as usual great pics thx..

Great work on the comparisons.

 
 By: colantotte : July 7th, 2008-18:29
I enjoyed it thoroughly. Thank you very much. Any of these 3 watches is beautiful, although not 100% historically. Each have their unique look, IMHO. Cheers,

Agree, Colantotte

 
 By: amanico : July 7th, 2008-22:45

New to this forum..

 
 By: xaggie95 : July 7th, 2008-20:22
and howdy to all. Related to the post I think that Panerai's attempt at a "hybrid" or selective use of designs whether 1950 on dial or the use of MM has made these pieces that much more attractive. IMHO the 47 Luminors are Panerais version of "Homage" pie... 

Hi, Xaggie95, this is a nice diplomatic answer! LOL

 
 By: amanico : July 7th, 2008-22:48
You're absolutely right, BTW... Not historically accurate, but close enough for the enthusiast, this is correct. Welcome here, my friend. Always nice to see a new face, and I'm looking forward to read you more often, here. Nicolas

Not that correct...

 
 By: Fred Tan : July 8th, 2008-08:27
203 not historically perfect, I agree. 127 totally wrong, I agree. 217 historically wrong totally, maybe not. I think 217 maybe the most correct (with less wrong) among the great 3. From the newly plublished official book by Panerai in conjuction with SIH...  

Hi, Fred Tan

 
 By: amanico : July 8th, 2008-08:37
The movement on the ancester of the 217 is a rolex Cortebert, which is correct for a Luminor Base, so without small seconds. When you speak about small seconds, this is not the Rolex Cortbert, but the Angelus 8 days, which is correct. So, no the 217, with... 

Up or Down...

 
 By: BDLJ : September 28th, 2011-18:02
Are the crown lock mechanisms not reversible on the vintage Panerai? If the mounting surfaces are flat, and the screw sizes are the same, they could be mounted either way without compromising sealing (from the drawings I've seen)....That said, Up to Down ... 

For sure...

 
 By: BDLJ : September 29th, 2011-16:29
My comment was more to do with the ability to turn them over on the vintage (whether they were intended to be turned over is another matter)... If it were possible, I can see the situation where a repairer may return it upside down, since they would need ... 

I think ( nothing sure ) that it is possible, on the Vintage.

 
 By: amanico : September 29th, 2011-21:21
As for the 127 / 217, a friend, POY, had a brilliant idea: To put the lever in the good position, he took the 217 lever and put it on the 127, and vice versa. Et voilà! Best, Nicolas.

Intersesting read Nicolas [nt]

 
 By: MatNic : July 8th, 2008-12:12
No message body

Thanks, and sorry for the delay. ;) [nt]

 
 By: amanico : September 28th, 2011-07:44
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another great post

 
 By: limcungwei : September 28th, 2011-05:42
Great post as always. Always love reading your post. Very useful information for me, at least. Thanks!

My pleasure. Thanks for the nice comments. [nt]

 
 By: amanico : September 28th, 2011-07:43
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Question....

 
 By: sergio : September 28th, 2011-09:53
isn't there also a 367 somewhere? Or is it a 44mm? Ciao - Sergio

267 or 367, Sergio?

 
 By: amanico : September 28th, 2011-10:53
This message has been edited by amanico on 2011-09-28 10:55:43

ooops....267...sorry [nt]

 
 By: sergio : September 28th, 2011-14:43
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Your 2

 
 By: Ares501 - Mr Green : September 29th, 2011-12:45
year + old posts popping out... Isn't this enough sign for you??? Go for 341 Best D

No way, but thanks for your kind words, Amigo. [nt]

 
 By: amanico : September 29th, 2011-12:51
No message body