Hmmmm.....

Jan 10, 2011,21:13 PM
 

I wholeheartedly agree that the ceramic coating will resist any contact with alcohol (and a lot of other more corrosive things).

However, we need to stop and think about all the possibilities (and I believe Panerai is also).

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The hard ceramic coating is applied in a special process to provide a synergistic coating (unlike a painted surface).

During the process, the ceramic is penetrated a few microns into the aluminum base (actual specifications from Panerai are not publicly available).

The coating is extremely hard and resistant to scratches and abrasions.

However, the "soft" aluminum remains as the main underlying material.

Think about an M&M candy.

Hard on the outside, but soft inside.

Imagine an innocent drop onto a floor.

The tough outer layer will resist any scratches, but the soft inner core will yield and bend to the impact (after all - it is aluminum).

None of the ceramic coating will break off or chip away, because it is bonded to the base aluminum.

You would have to physically remove the surface of the aluminum to remove the protective ceramic coating.

But, under a microscope, the ceramic layer may develop micro-fractures.

Ceramics are designed for maximum compressive strength, but have poor tensile strength.

Parts of the aluminum deformation will undergo compressive loads, but other areas will witness tensile loads.

The tensile zones may develop micro-fractures in the ceramic layer.

It is here, that any chemical (read - alcohol) may begin to interact with the unprotected aluminum.

One should be more concerned with the high levels of chlorine in a pool/hot tub or sea water than a glass of beer or flute of champagne.

Plus, imagine the salts in your summer sweat or work-out sweat coming in contact with your exposed aluminum.

Now what can happen, is the aluminum may begin to oxidize under the coating and the coating may begin to flake.

If the coating flakes, then you'll be needing a new case or bezel.

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Now, the above is base on about ten years of experience with aluminum components with synergistic (protective) coatings in the dairy industry.

Caustic washdown of the processing equipment  is a daily occurrence.

Coated aluminum parts will resist anything you could throw at them.

However, if the coated surface was compromised, one would begin to see the aluminum swell from oxidation.

This swelling puts the surface in tension and creates more cracks.

More cracks increase the surface area for reactions and the whole process becomes a death spiral.

Please keep in mind, that the dairy environment is an aggressive and accelerated process and probably will not represent day-to-day wrist wear.

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Now, I believe that Panerai is trying to provide information for the proper care and feeding of their time pieces.

If you are so blessed to get one of these special pieces, then I would follow their guidelines to maximize the enjoyment of ownership.

Why push your luck when there is no need?

Blessings,
Johnny Mac



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Comments: view entire thread

 

PAM 339, Water Resistant but Not Champagne Resistant

 
 By: kys1944 : January 3rd, 2011-03:59
While the 292 has ceramic, the 339 is a composite and was told when wearing the watch to avoid alcohol contact... we have seen enough posts with Pam lovers dunking their watches into a glass of beer... what gives? Colour will fade so I was told.

While i have not dunked mine into a glass of champagne before

 
 By: BluNotte : January 3rd, 2011-05:25
I don't think it will fade with alcohol as i have gotten mine cleaned with benzene before, and so far nothing has changed. Cheers! Stephen

Benzene!

 
 By: diluted magnetics : January 4th, 2011-20:38
That's really brave Stephen! I don't think benzene will harm your watch, but it is really toxic to humans. Take care

That is a little hard to beleive

 
 By: grigo : January 3rd, 2011-07:11
I don't beleive that this watcg that is in ceramic and is not a composite changes due to a contact with any kind of substance. Any idea where this information came from? Best regards, George

Phew,,,, I;m lucky.. not only have I no chance to get one, but I don't drink alcohol...OH.

 
 By: Miranda : January 3rd, 2011-07:14
BUT WAIT...I have on order the 386..... and what about COLA????????? damn.... Imran

Buy a real watch! :)))

 
 By: amanico : January 3rd, 2011-07:57
Tribute To Polaris 68, from " La Grande Maison ". Champagne, Beer and Water Resistant, tested by myself. Best, Nicolas....  

Witnessed myself :0)))

 
 By: Ares501 - Mr Green : January 3rd, 2011-10:34
and we have another witness... btw where he is lately... got lost in bluest of the blue dials :0)) Best Damjan

still love this pic

 
 By: aldossari_faisal : January 3rd, 2011-13:44
if im not mistaken its from the summer trip, no?! Faisal

you're wrong

 
 By: wachauat : April 26th, 2011-05:00
I have the Polaris, and it can be damaged by alcohol. Just use "nobite" bugspray - the glass of the Ploaris, which is actually synthetic, melts away and becomes milky. I estimate every alcohol or other dissolves will do the same. Greetings

I am checking sources but this is a bit odd...

 
 By: kys1944 : January 3rd, 2011-09:57
I have gotten mine and was told to never have the watch come into contact with any form of nail polisher, alcohol wipe, swaps... and definitely don't spill champagne and alcohol on it. I was puzzled as well because given it being a harder than ceramic ste...  

Sounds like complete rubbish, kys...

 
 By: BDLJ : January 4th, 2011-16:47
...I cannot think of any circumstances where the coating on the 339 might be vulnerable to alcohol. I wouldn't be concerned about your watch, dunk away! The coating on the 339 was developed in the metals industry to provide a way of effectively covering a... 

339 is ALUMINUM and NOT Ceramic

 
 By: kys1944 : January 5th, 2011-08:56
339 is NOT a ceramic watch. It's aluminum treated by a chemical process. I would wanna see others dunk theirs first call me chicken. However, it sounds a bit flimsy... if it is not beer proof. PANERAI - Composite Ceramic is a material characterized by a c... 

I didn't intend to...

 
 By: BDLJ : January 5th, 2011-15:01
imply that your post was rubbish. Rather that whomever told you it was vulnerable to alcohol was talking rubbish. Apologies if it came across that way. And I certainly didn't call you chicken! My post actually states what the press release above mentions,... 

Let's hope you are right!

 
 By: kys1944 : January 6th, 2011-09:57

Interesting point about the composite..

 
 By: colantotte : January 3rd, 2011-10:32
Hope OP can shed some light on this. I assume they are built with some degree of durability and toughness, considering it is a water resistance of up to 100m, and I am assuming the composite material is resistant to sea water too.. Best regards,

I'm sure it has boosted champagne sales

 
 By: Mech : January 3rd, 2011-15:12
a little by now I read somewhere the 339 has self-healing miracle to some scratch ? Gee, talking about mysteries of this watch ?

I've heard the same thing....

 
 By: i_am_Sam : January 3rd, 2011-15:50
And it's quite surprising.. I'd love to hear more about this... Best, Sam...  

source is at a pamerai boutique

 
 By: timlua : January 5th, 2011-01:30
while at the boutique and viewing the 339, thats exactly what we r told. im not a chemist or expert in that matter, nor do i own a 339 ...yet. but thats what we were told. im on the list for 1. cheers tim

Maybe soon a 339 dunked into BEER for cheers will appear

 
 By: kys1944 : January 5th, 2011-01:56
let's see, who wants to go first!? It's funny how they claim to have come up with a lighter and harder material that is not BEER PROOF!

Hmmmm.....

 
 By: J-Mac : January 10th, 2011-21:13
I wholeheartedly agree that the ceramic coating will resist any contact with alcohol (and a lot of other more corrosive things). However, we need to stop and think about all the possibilities (and I believe Panerai is also). ------------------------------... 

Very good post, J-mac

 
 By: BDLJ : January 10th, 2011-22:39
I agree with that analysis. I haven't done any impact tests or similar on a Microplasmic coated chunk of aluminium, but I suspect you're right in terms of the M&M analogy. As you wrote, the most insidious failure would be cracks in the surface invisib... 

My 2 cents

 
 By: water334 : April 30th, 2011-13:25
Hi, I'm sorry I'm not a big contributor to this forum but it just so happens that I do have personal experience on this topic. It is true that when I purchased my 339 from the boutique I was told not to have it in contact with any type of alcohol. The pro... 

Can you post the photos of your faded 339?

 
 By: gasterus : May 22nd, 2011-05:47
I've thought of getting the 339, but if it is so vulnerable i would definitely think twice.